Geisha Culture and Arts

Honorifics Discussion

2/16/08 Class - Honorifics

This Saturday class has been edited for readability. Veritas (Geisha Miyasumi) conducted the class. Okasan, Eua and Megumi were in attendance. We were so happy to see those who could be there and missed those who could not and also send you our love and understanding!

7:04]  Veritas Veloce: Ohayo Gozaimasu. Welcome to Saturday class! So in Saturday class we do a variety of things..sometimes a lesson material, sometimes an outing, some times skill building. So today... we will do a bit of all 3. For the lesson.....some website work and discussion so you'll want to open your browser, then Okasan will teach something on building...and then just after class...for those that have time and wish to we will go on a little adventure. So...lets start with the lesson material...please go to
everyone there?
[7:08]  Megumi Kanto: Yes
[7:09]  Eua Uriza: hai
[7:09]  Veritas Veloce: So this is the new website....(Okasan has been working hard on it !)
and we will continue to add material there as time goes on. So on the right hand side...lists leesons and also a forum.
[7:11]  Megumi Kanto has explored this and input on forums
[7:11]  Eua Uriza: oh i wanted to ask you about the forums. What do we do in the forums?
Well posting something there is part of the lesson "to do".

Okasan: may i speak? The forums show all your sisters and oneesan and okasan what thing you have gleaned from the lesson or what it meant to you. It really is another way for all of us to learn more about the lesson, how it was received, if it needed corrections, or needed something more. This way the students give their input and the lessons can keep on getting better and better.
[7:15]  Eua Uriza nods and smiles
[7:16]  Veritas Veloce: So , each lesson needs a post from each student....that is written in the content of the lesson activities too I believe
Okasan: so IF the lesson was reviewed to the end, the student should be doing the forum note.
[7:17]  Megumi Kanto: If I may add a comment. It is fairly easy to do also. To create a user for the forums. One needs to create a user to post on the forums.
Okasan: yes... you have to be a freewebs account user....Also we need to remember to pass these lessons on to the whole okiya group - so all can see. I may put these in the blog part of the site - would that work?
[7:20]  Megumi Kanto: The blog area would be good I think.
Okasan: I'll do one in PS and set up the instructions in the classroom
[7:19]  Veritas Veloce: A notecard on this would be helpful
Okasan: I'll do one in PS and set up the instructions in the classroom
[7:21]  Veritas Veloce: OK that would be helpful. So lets take a look at Minarai 2, honorifics. 
Okasan opens up honorifics page
[7:23]  Megumi Kanto: smiles as that is lesson I am working on.
[7:23]  Veritas Veloce: Good..We are going to ask everyone to go thru these new lessons too...for review!
[7:24]  Eua Uriza: ok..
[7:24]  Veritas Veloce: So lets read thru the lesson material on the web
[7:24]  Okasan raises her hand. Did you know you can turn off the music? At the very bottom of the page there is a little control. So if you don't like music you can deactivate it
[7:25]  Eua Uriza: ilove the music
[7:25]  Veritas Veloce: Domo arigato.. for that. So... what is Keigo?
[7:26]  Megumi Kanto raises her hand.
[7:26]  Veritas Veloce: Go ahead Megumi
[7:27]  Megumi Kanto: Respectful language. There are 3 types. Sonkeigo is one it is used when talking with superiors or customers. It is very polite basically
[7:30]  Megumi Kanto: It is characterized by lengthy polite expressions. Kensongo is the next type. It is a humble way of talking to describe your own actions or those in your inner circle of sisters. It implies that one's actions are taking place to help the other person
[7:34]  Eua Uriza: you dont have ti use it only in your inner circle of sisters. It would be good to use it and when patrons are around. Because the examples it has , are for the patrons also
Veritas: I think megumi meant you use it when talking about your sisters
[7:35]  Eua Uriza: except we need to add -sama after their names
[7:36]  Megumi Kanto: Yes you would use it talking with anyone I think.
[7:36]  Eua Uriza: I am talking about this "I will carry it if you please."
[7:36]  Eua Uriza: it is good to use this way of talking to patrons too
[7:37]  Veritas Veloce: And the 3rd.?
[7:37]  Okasan raises her hand
[7:37]  Veritas Veloce: Hai Okasan
[7:38]  Okasan: there is a difference I think is what we are talking about the tag,  -san is not needed amongst your friends group, but is used with others outside of the group. The way of speaking though, being polite is always used at it's most basic form. For instance, in IM we often are more relaxed, but it can distract our roleplay if someone calls us "hon"- but that may only be me
[7:40]  Eua Uriza smiles
[7:40]  Okasan: another example - is when we are giving a performance if you are in the audience and not performing but looking on, you would never interrupt to say - "well I gotta go now." So sometimes the polite speech is also non-verbal. What might you do instead?
[7:41]  Eua Uriza: use /me..
[7:42]  Veritas Veloce: Perhaps ......Veritas Veloce bows slightly, saddened to leave this exquisite performance
[7:42]  Okasan: or if during a performance and you have to may simply go after you let one of your other sisters know in IM. Hai....i think it depends on type of performance
[7:43]  Megumi Kanto nods
[7:43]  Okasan: if a large audience, like at Moulin, you would just quietly leave - let someone know in IM. If an intimate tea, you would apologize for rudely leaving. In fact, further down in the lesson is an example I believe. Oops no it is in the next one. But in English you can say
"Please excuse me - I need to go now - forgive me for leaving before you." or something like that. Perhaps we can also review this when we see the next lesson together. What about -chan after your sister's names?
[7:47]  Eua Uriza: it is for younger sisters
[7:47]  Megumi Kanto: Chan is for little sisters like me.
[7:47]  Veritas Veloce: usually it is a term of endearment
[7:48]  Okasan: so generally from an elder to a younger?
[7:48]  Veritas Veloce: yes
[7:48]  Okasan: or upline as well?
[7:48]  Eua Uriza: i am sorry, what upline means?
[7:48]  Veritas Veloce: i think peers could use it, but for example one would never call you chan !!
[7:48]  Okasan: upline would be if Megumi said Eua-chan
[7:49]  Eua Uriza nods
Okasan:  so she could call you Eua-chan because you are sisters - and you love each other :)
as a term of endearment?
[7:50]  Veritas Veloce: when they are both of the same rank
[7:50]  Okasan: but yes...I suppose I do not get called Suzanne-chan
[7:50]  Megumi Kanto: Is that respectful Okasan?
[7:50]  You: if you were both Minarai -
[7:50]  Veritas Veloce: Unfortunately cant be chan with us.
[7:50]  Eua Uriza: I am confused..
[7:50]  Okasan: but not a Minarai to a Maiko, but a Maiko could to a Minarai - sorry to confuse
[7:51]  Eua Uriza: ok
[7:51]  Veritas Veloce: Hai
[7:51]  Eua Uriza: not to worry Oka-san!
[7:51]  Veritas Veloce: IN RL...
[7:51]  Eua Uriza: or Oka-sama?
[7:51]  Veritas Veloce: no...
[7:51]  Megumi Kanto thinks oka-chan and giggles
[7:51]  Eua Uriza nods
[7:51]  Veritas Veloce: Okasan is actually a word...
[7:52]  Veritas Veloce: menaing mother
[7:52]  Okasan: *smiles you know when you call me Okasan - I love it.....I feel all your respect and love in that word
[7:52]  Eua Uriza: I have heard a few japanese girls call their mother Oka-sama..
[7:52]  Veritas Veloce: the san in actually past of the word....not the "-san" that goes with a name.
[7:53]  Veritas Veloce: like children would call their mother 'Okasan'
[7:54]  Okasan: they may call their Mothers Oka-sama
[7:54]  Eua Uriza: hm and what about what i have heard about "okasama"?
[7:54]  You: but in this context - the Okasan is also head of Okiya
[7:54]  You: so a double meaning
[7:54]  Veritas Veloce: Technically.....
[7:54]  Eua Uriza nods and smiles to Okasan

The building part of the lesson was placed on reserve for another occasion and this lesson was concluded so Geisha Miyasumi took Eua and Megumi on a tour of a very special art gallery. Perhaps you can ask one of them to take you too!

submitted 2/16/08 by S. Logan

Posted on Saturday, Feb 16, 2008, 09:35 AM (UTC -7)